Part-time programs?

[JurisDad]

I'm looking for advice on part-time vs. full-time law school programs.

A little background--I would be a non-traditional student (older) and I currently have a fairly successful career. I have always wanted to go to law school, but work/family/money issues always got in the way. My life is a bit more settled now, so I'm getting somewhat serious about the idea again. I live in the DC area, so I understand there are several schools here that offer part-time programs.

My thoughts on full-time:
I cannot afford to take 3 years off work. My wife is encouraging me to take out loans to pay for it. But having only recently paid off my undergrad loans, I'm very reluctant to go back into debt.

My thoughts on part-time:
I'm nervous about being able to manage working full-time while going to school in the evenings. I can likely handle going to class a couple of evenings per week, but would I have classes almost every night? That would wear me out, and I'd hardly get to see my wife and kids.

I'm sure there are many more factors that I have not considered. I appreciate any help!

[JurisDad]

How important is an internship? It seems most full-time students do a legal internship between the 2nd and 3rd year. I would miss out on that opportunity by doing a part-time program. But as a working professional for many years, do I really need this experience?

[Jeffort]

How important is an internship? It seems most full-time students do a legal internship between the 2nd and 3rd year. I would miss out on that opportunity by doing a part-time program. But as a working professional for many years, do I really need this experience?

Internships/clerking for a judge are very helpful to improve your chances of getting job offers from law firms and other agencies so you have a job in the legal world upon graduation. 

As for the part time vs full time dilemma, that's a tough call to make.  Law School is very demanding and requires most of your daily time to keep up with the reading in order to perform well.  There is no way around it, you WILL have to sacrifice a lot of the time you would otherwise be spending with your wife and kids either way in order to keep up and learn the subject matter of each class to achieve good grades. 

[JurisDad]

Thank you for the response. From what I understand, it will be a huge sacrifice either way--part-time or full-time.

What about online programs? Cutting out the commute to campus would be a huge time saver. I haven't looked into this option very deeply, but it seems that many of the online programs are not accredited. What are the differences between accredited and non-accredited programs?

[Anne]

What are the differences between accredited and non-accredited programs?

An "accredited" program is one that has been recognized by the American Bar Association (ABA) as fulfilling its Standards for Legal Education (you can read what constitutes these Standards by clicking here: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/standards.html). In contrast, a non-accredited school is one that has either been reviewed by the ABA and found to not fulfill these standards, or it is a school that has not yet begun the process of being reviewed and becoming accredited.

The biggest advantage in attending an ABA-accredited law school, apart from having the knowledge that the facility, instructors, professors, materials, and curriculum have been reviewed meticulously by the ABA, is the fact that, after graduation, you can then take the Bar anywhere in the United States (and, by extension, practice anywhere in the country). This is definitely not the case with non-accredited schools. The main problem for graduates of non-accredited schools is that their physical practice area is severely limited--they are restricted to the state (in some rare cases, the county) in which the school is located. This can severely hamper your employment chances; law firms know that you are not "relocatable" due to the school you attended, and they also know that the curriculum you studied and the instructor that taught it to you may not be up to ABA standards.

Although it may be tempting to go with an unaccredited online school because it may give you a little more scheduling flexibility, it's really not worth it (in my opinion) when you factor in how much it can hamper the credibility of your education, your employability, and your "relocatability." I know that the amount of time you will spend in law school over the next three years can be daunting, and that you will worry about not spending enough time with your family--however, that will be the case even with an unaccredited school. The work load for law school for any program worth its salt will be extensive, and that's just something you need to consider and come to terms with as you decide if law school is good for you. It definitely can take over your schedule, and it will definitely be your job for the next three years; it's a fact that you will spend most of your time on law school work. It's just the name of the law school game. 

Accredited is definitely better than unaccredited. Particularly in your case, with the amount of time you will be sacrificing, I wouldn't even consider an unaccredited program. You want to make sure that, if you're going to spend the time and money on this, that you can get as much out of it as possible, and that it's as beneficial for you as it possibly can be.

[JurisDad]

That is an excellent explanation, Anne; thank you.

Obviously accredited is better than unaccredited; I realize that. However, some of the differences are not necessarily factors for me personally. I am not interested in leaving the DC area. I have raised my kids here, and we have established deep roots in the area. Only being able to practice in one state is completely fine. I also have a few connections within the local law community that I am confident would be able to help increase my employability.

I do not want to come across as if all I want is the degree as simply a piece of paper proving that I attended LS. I do value quality education, and I look forward to broadening my knowledge in a new area. I have not even considered an unaccredited school until very recently.

I suppose I need to determine which factors hold the most weight. Sure, an online program would be more convenient, but still a lot of work. If the work load is similar either way, then I would value the increased level of education over the convenience. But I wonder how different tuition prices are between an unaccredited online program and an accredited on-campus program?

I really appreciate the insight so far from this forum. There is so much information elsewhere online, that its overwhelming. It is great to find a consolidated place get such good advice. And I have not even begun with the LSAT part yet!

[Trex555]

That is an excellent explanation, Anne; thank you.

Obviously accredited is better than unaccredited; I realize that. However, some of the differences are not necessarily factors for me personally. I am not interested in leaving the DC area. I have raised my kids here, and we have established deep roots in the area. Only being able to practice in one state is completely fine. I also have a few connections within the local law community that I am confident would be able to help increase my employability.

Since you are in DC, think carefully about the one-state idea. Taking cases in DC would most likely involve court action in both Virginia and Maryland, meaning the unaccredited school could really put you at a huge disadvantage in terms of practice area and cases you could handle. You should call the local Bar Association and ask a few questions relating to the unaccredited degree. Better safe than very sorry.

[Anne]

Since you are in DC, think carefully about the one-state idea. Taking cases in DC would most likely involve court action in both Virginia and Maryland, meaning the unaccredited school could really put you at a huge disadvantage in terms of practice area and cases you could handle. You should call the local Bar Association and ask a few questions relating to the unaccredited degree.

Yes, yes, and more yes. Calling the local Bar Association would definitely be my first step. Another problem you might run into (particularly in DC) is that, since there are so many high-quality accredited law schools right there, the fact that you didn't go to an accredited on-campus program might put you at a significant disadvantage. Whereas this might not be such a problem in, say, North Dakota (or South Dakota, Montana or Wyoming), where there is only one single accredited law school (and where you may not live anywhere near it, therefore justifying the online unaccredited option), in a city like DC it might prove to be a considerable hindrance in your job search.

The other point brought up by Trex regarding where the cases might be held is also a huge consideration. As I mentioned before, with an unaccredited school typically being significantly limited regarding location, this could definitely turn into a problem very fast in a practice area like DC.

[Jeffort]

IMHO, going to an unaccredited Law School, especially an online one, is a giant mistake if you want to have a chance of getting a job in the legal field, especially one in the DC area.  

The competition is fierce.  




Substantial proportions of students in UG or that have recently graduated from a UG in that area (DC, Virgina, Maryland) aspire to go to Law School and become a lawyer.  

Here is some relevant info from the DC Bar Association:

http://www.dcappeals.gov/dccourts/appeals/coa/faq.jsp

What are the eligibility requirements to take the D.C. Bar examination?

An applicant who has graduated from a law school that at the time of graduation was approved by the American Bar Association or who is certified by the dean of such law school as being eligible for graduation shall be permitted to take the bar examination. An applicant permitted to take the bar examination pursuant to the above-mentioned "dean's certification" may not be admitted to the bar without first having submitted to the director of Admissions a certificate that the applicant has graduated with a J.D. or LL.B. degree.

An applicant who graduated from a law school not approved by the American Bar Association shall be permitted to take the bar examination only after successfully completing at least 26 semester hours of study in the subjects tested (see Rule 46 (b) (8 (iii)) on the bar examination at a law school that at the time of such study was approved by the American Bar Association.

All such 26 semester hours shall be earned in courses of study, each of which is substantially concentrated on a single tested subject.

The main web page for the DC Bar:  http://www.dcbar.org/

[JurisDad]

Thank you all for the good advice. Points well taken. After reading this and several lengthy conversations with key people in my life (my wife, current employer, friends in the industry, and even my pastor), I have dismissed the idea of a part-time program, and certainly a non-accredited one. There does not seem to be any shortcuts. If I am going to spend the time and money to pursue this dream, then I need to make sure I am doing it right.

Being a full-time student again (first time over 20 years) may be an adjustment, but I've decided to take the philosophy that school will be my full-time job. The finances may be tight, but the debts will be repaid eventually. I will still have time for dinner every night with my family. I will study, rather than leisure read, after the house settles down at night. There will be ways to maintain the routine without rocking the boat too much.

My pastor said it best, "would a bird learn to fly if he never left the nest?". He is right; taking risks is part of being successful.

[Anne]

I have dismissed the idea of a part-time program, and certainly a non-accredited one. There does not seem to be any shortcuts. If I am going to spend the time and money to pursue this dream, then I need to make sure I am doing it right.

Being a full-time student again (first time over 20 years) may be an adjustment, but I've decided to take the philosophy that school will be my full-time job. The finances may be tight, but the debts will be repaid eventually. I will still have time for dinner every night with my family. I will study, rather than leisure read, after the house settles down at night. There will be ways to maintain the routine without rocking the boat too much.

I'm glad to hear you say that. It's exactly the kind of attitude you need to have if you're going to make this phase of your life work and be fruitful. If I may offer another piece of advice, it would only be that you AIM HIGH. Don't go into the LSAT thinking, "Well, as long as I get a 150 [or 160, 145, 170, whatever], then I'll be happy." Aim and study for the perfect 180. Don't go into the application process content to attend a school that you're not crazy about. Visit all the schools in the area and go with the ones your gut tells you you will love and enjoy, and then aim as high for them as with anything else.

So many of the students I work with are content to aim for "passing"--and that's exactly what they get. Don't fall into that trap.

[EmmyM]

I am most likely going to do a part-time program, but definitely accredited. Good advice here!

[Anne]

I am most likely going to do a part-time program, but definitely accredited. Good advice here!

Emmy -- First off, welcome to the board!

Secondly, have you started looking at schools? Which programs are catching your eye right now?

[EmmyM]

Thanks!

I'm banking on getting into Loyola in NOLA. I think my chances are pretty good.

[Anne]

Thanks!

I'm banking on getting into Loyola in NOLA. I think my chances are pretty good.

How are your essays and apps going? Have you started working on either?