Do you have questions about the law school admissions process?

[Anne]

If I didn't get the best grades in college, but score high on the LSAT, what are the chances I get in a quality school?  Is a student interesting in studying to become a lawyer depend more on their grades or the LSAT score?  It's getting close to my exam and I would like to know how important the LSAT is to getting me into a good law school.

It depends on what you mean by "best grades in college," "score high on the LSAT," and "quality school." If you got a 2.0 in college, you'll have a hard time breaking into any school in the top 30 (perhaps even top 50), without a compelling reason for those grades, regardless of your LSAT score. If you mean a 3.2, then it's another story entirely. It also matters how long it's been since you graduated. If it's been 10 years since your college graduation and you've done exceptionally well in your professional life since, that will go a long way to ameliorating the GPA.

Regarding your question about which students depend on more (GPA v. LSAT), the answer is that they both matter. One indicates the success you've had in past academic endeavors (GPA), the other shows your academic potential in law school (LSAT). They are both important and, combined, are the most salient part of your application. Doing well on the LSAT is paramount; it shows law schools you've got the chops to succeed in their program.

If you'd like to give us some more specifics (what your GPA was, where you're thinking of applying, how long it's been since you graduated college), we're glad to give you our take on what your specific situation looks like.

[Maximus]

Anne,

I just took the LSAT yesterday, and I will be submitting my application for admittance during the Fall 2012 semester as soon as I am able. (September 1st I believe)

I did not do that well GPA wise my first 2-3 years of college, but over the course of the Fall 2010-Spring 2011 semesters I have been selected to the Dean's List twice. (What was the Deans certification, by the way?)

I am an Accounting major at LSU, and I would love to attend LSU's law school. I finally got to a 3.0 overall GPA when Spring '11 grades posted so I was accepted into the business college.

My major GPA is 2.83 due to the fact that some of my business courses did not turn out so well at the beginning of college. I initially got an F in the first Accounting, but I followed it up with a repeat grade of 'A.'

Here are my questions: Will my major GPA hurt my chances even though my overall is 3.0? Should I write some sort of addendum in order to explain why my grades were poor early on in college? Will me being an LSU undergrad as well as pursuing a challenging major such as Accounting help my chances for admission in any significant sort of way?

Finally, my biggest concern is my LSAT score. I have seen on LSU's website that their median is a 158, but the best that I have mustered on a practice exam is 149. Hopefully my real score will be much better than that, but would you happen to know if something in the range of 3.0/155 could get one into LSU?

In addition, how do I apply as a nontraditional applicant? A lady told me I could at a career fair, but didn't specify how. I'm considered a disabled veteran bc I broke my back in the Army prior to attending lsu.
Thanks,

Jonathan

[Anne]

Anne,

I just took the LSAT yesterday, and I will be submitting my application for admittance during the Fall 2012 semester as soon as I am able. (September 1st I believe)

I did not do that well GPA wise my first 2-3 years of college, but over the course of the Fall 2010-Spring 2011 semesters I have been selected to the Dean's List twice. (What was the Deans certification, by the way?)

I am an Accounting major at LSU, and I would love to attend LSU's law school. I finally got to a 3.0 overall GPA when Spring '11 grades posted so I was accepted into the business college.

My major GPA is 2.83 due to the fact that some of my business courses did not turn out so well at the beginning of college. I initially got an F in the first Accounting, but I followed it up with a repeat grade of 'A.'

Here are my questions: Will my major GPA hurt my chances even though my overall is 3.0? Should I write some sort of addendum in order to explain why my grades were poor early on in college? Will me being an LSU undergrad as well as pursuing a challenging major such as Accounting help my chances for admission in any significant sort of way?

Finally, my biggest concern is my LSAT score. I have seen on LSU's website that their median is a 158, but the best that I have mustered on a practice exam is 149. Hopefully my real score will be much better than that, but would you happen to know if something in the range of 3.0/155 could get one into LSU?

In addition, how do I apply as a nontraditional applicant? A lady told me I could at a career fair, but didn't specify how. I'm considered a disabled veteran bc I broke my back in the Army prior to attending lsu.
Thanks,

Jonathan

Hey Jonathan,

Congrats on being done with the LSAT! I'm sure it feels good to have it over. I'm glad to give you my take on your questions.

Will my major GPA hurt my chances even though my overall is 3.0?
Yes and no. Schools tend to look at your overall GPA rather than your major GPA. However, if your major GPA is noted in your transcript, then schools will be able to see it, which will drag down the value of your 3.0 (which is not a good thing, considering that a 3.0 is already below the 25th percentile for accepted students at LSU Law, based on the numbers available at LSAC's Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools--http://officialguide.lsac.org). Let me put it this way: Given that your 3.0 is already low, a 2.83 major GPA won't really do much MORE damage. However, you should still aim to ameliorate it, which is why you should write an addendum (see next question).

Should I write some sort of addendum in order to explain why my grades were poor early on in college?
YES. Particularly in a case like yours, where you started off rocky but then excelled, an addendum can go a long way to making a low GPA not look so bad. You'll want to call attention to the fact that you made Dean's List (and continue making Dean's List and keeping those grades as high as you can--that's what will really drive the point home). You will also want to call attention to the fact that you got those Dean's List grades in your junior (and, hopefully, senior) year classes, which (should) be the hardest and most advanced ones on your transcript. However, you'll want to keep the addendum brief, factual, and to-the-point. Own the fact that you got those poor grades; don't try to find something/someone else to blame for it. Just present the facts and don't tell the Admissions Committee how to do their job--they'll know how to interpret the information you give them.

Will me being an LSU undergrad as well as pursuing a challenging major such as Accounting help my chances for admission in any significant sort of way?
While some schools do seem to exhibit a slight preference over applicants from the school's undergrad program, it won't really give you much of an advantage. The challenging major will give you a slight boost, but given that your GPA in it is low, it likely won't be much (if any).

Could something in the range of 3.0/155 could get one into LSU?
LSAC's UGPA/LSAT Calculator (https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/UGPALSAT/UGPALSAT.aspx) puts your chances of admission to LSU at 25-35% with those numbers, which is not surprising given that both the LSAT score and GPA number are at or below the 25th percentile for the school. Hopefully, your LSAT will be higher, which will increase your chances considerably.

How do I apply as a nontraditional applicant?
You don't need to do anything very differently to apply as a non-traditional applicant. What being a NTA means is that you are not the usual fresh-out-of-college 21-year-old seeking admission; you bring something else to the table that makes you stand out. Essentially, what you need to do is communicate these differences to the AdComs. You can do this particularly through your personal statement, but also through your résumé (by highlighting unusual experiences), and by answering any additional (typically non-required) questions that the application may have.

And, before I forget , let me answer:

What is a Dean's Certification?
It's a document that you submit to your Dean's office of your undergrad. It states that you are in good standing at the school. Some schools require it, others don't. Check the application requirements for LSU, and, if they do require one, submit it as soon as possible to the Dean's office so that they can get it to the law school with plenty of time.

Hope that helps, Jonathan! Let me know if I can be of further assistance! Best of luck!

[Maximus]

Thanks for the reply; I really appreciate it! I'll definitely get to work on all of your suggestions.

[Maximus]

Should I write some sort of addendum in order to explain why my grades were poor early on in college?
YES. Particularly in a case like yours, where you started off rocky but then excelled, an addendum can go a long way to making a low GPA not look so bad. You'll want to call attention to the fact that you made Dean's List (and continue making Dean's List and keeping those grades as high as you can--that's what will really drive the point home). You will also want to call attention to the fact that you got those Dean's List grades in your junior (and, hopefully, senior) year classes, which (should) be the hardest and most advanced ones on your transcript. However, you'll want to keep the addendum brief, factual, and to-the-point. Own the fact that you got those poor grades; don't try to find something/someone else to blame for it. Just present the facts and don't tell the Admissions Committee how to do their job--they'll know how to interpret the information you give them.

This may be a silly question, but where exactly do I attach this addendum? And how should it be titled?

I'm on the LSAC website under my LSU active application, and in box 1 there is a grayed out space that says, "Supplemental Form" underneath Primary Application. Is this where it should be uploaded or is it physically attached to my Personal Statement?

[Anne]

This may be a silly question, but where exactly do I attach this addendum? And how should it be titled?

I'm on the LSAC website under my LSU active application, and in box 1 there is a grayed out space that says, "Supplemental Form" underneath Primary Application. Is this where it should be uploaded or is it physically attached to my Personal Statement?

You can attach it under the section that says "Upload Additional Documents." This should be point number 2 in the "Applications" box, right below the grayed out "Supplemental Form." Just click on the "View or Edit" button, and it'll give you the option to upload a file from your computer (I've attached a picture of it). Don't attach it to your personal statement; your personal statement should be its own document. However, in many cases, you will also attach your personal statement through the "Upload Additional Documents" section.

Regarding the title, keep it clear and straightforward. Something along the lines of "Grades Addendum" or "Transcript Addendum" should be sufficient. Make sure to include your name and LSAC number so that if the document gets separated from the rest of your application, it can find its way back again.

Hope that helps!

[Maximus]

You can attach it under the section that says "Upload Additional Documents." This should be point number 2 in the "Applications" box, right below the grayed out "Supplemental Form." Just click on the "View or Edit" button, and it'll give you the option to upload a file from your computer (I've attached a picture of it). Don't attach it to your personal statement; your personal statement should be it's own document. However, in many cases, you will also attach your personal statement through the "Upload Additional Documents" section.

Regarding the title, keep it clear and straightforward. Something along the lines of "Grades Addendum" or "Transcript Addendum" should be sufficient. Make sure to include your name and LSAC number so that if the document gets separated from the rest of your application, it can find its way back again.

Hope that helps!

 

[Anne]

You can attach it under the section that says "Upload Additional Documents." This should be point number 2 in the "Applications" box, right below the grayed out "Supplemental Form." Just click on the "View or Edit" button, and it'll give you the option to upload a file from your computer (I've attached a picture of it). Don't attach it to your personal statement; your personal statement should be it's own document. However, in many cases, you will also attach your personal statement through the "Upload Additional Documents" section.

Regarding the title, keep it clear and straightforward. Something along the lines of "Grades Addendum" or "Transcript Addendum" should be sufficient. Make sure to include your name and LSAC number so that if the document gets separated from the rest of your application, it can find its way back again.

Hope that helps!

 

LOL! Glad to help! Don't hesitate to let me know if you need any additional assistance!

[Maximus]

LOL! Glad to help! Don't hesitate to let me know if you need any additional assistance!

Trust me, I won't!

Here are a couple more I thought of:

LSU's website states that they require 2 LOR, but they will accept up to 3. Should I include 3 to try to alleviate some of their worry about me as an applicant? I have two so far: 1 from an attorney and 1 from a professor that didn't teach in my major. I'm going to try to get one more from a current Accounting professor, though.

I also emailed the admissions office at LSU, and I set up a tour of the facility. The assistant director of admissions agreed to meet with me as well.

I know this isn't exactly an interview, but I thought it is a good place for them to get to know me in order to put a face to a name before any applications start rolling in.

I was thinking I'd dress business casual, no tie, and try to express my desire to attend. I wasn't sure if I should mention any academic performance though. Your thoughts? Is this an appropriate venue for disclosing my poor GPA during early college years and what steps I have taken to address the issue?

[Anne]

LOL! Glad to help! Don't hesitate to let me know if you need any additional assistance!

Trust me, I won't!

Here are a couple more I thought of:

LSU's website states that they require 2 LOR, but they will accept up to 3. Should I include 3 to try to alleviate some of their worry about me as an applicant? I have two so far: 1 from an attorney and 1 from a professor that didn't teach in my major. I'm going to try to get one more from a current Accounting professor, though.

I also emailed the admissions office at LSU, and I set up a tour of the facility. The assistant director of admissions agreed to meet with me as well.

I know this isn't exactly an interview, but I thought it is a good place for them to get to know me in order to put a face to a name before any applications start rolling in.

I was thinking I'd dress business casual, no tie, and try to express my desire to attend. I wasn't sure if I should mention any academic performance though. Your thoughts? Is this an appropriate venue for disclosing my poor GPA during early college years and what steps I have taken to address the issue?

Should I include 3 to try to alleviate some of their worry about me as an applicant?
Yes. I think that, in your case, 3 letters are warranted. You want as many people cheering you on as possible, so that the negatives in your application fade away as much as possible. Make sure that the people you are getting them from are writing more than just the standard "I know him, he's a good guy, will make a great law student" sort of letter. You need glowing letters that showcase specific anecdotes and really make you shine and stand out.

I'm going to try to get one more from a current Accounting professor, though.
Good! The more current the academic recommendation, the better. And the fact that it'll be in your major, where you had the most issues with the GPA, is good. If it's the right kind of letter, it may lighten to load of the low grades.

Is this an appropriate venue for disclosing my poor GPA during early college years and what steps I have taken to address the issue?
That's a tough question. Here's the deal: Most of these meetings with admissions directors don't last long enough for you to be able to present an issue like this, thoroughly discuss it, and then present what you've done to fix it. They're only about 15-20 minutes long (if that; granted, that's not always the case, but it usually is). My concern with you using this as a vehicle to discuss your GPA issues is that all you'll really have time to do is bring up the negative side of things without having a chance to present the positives. Also, you have to be careful--because this isn't an interview, you're not really there to sell yourself (at least, not overtly). If you jump right in and start saying, "Listen, this is what's wrong, but let me tell you how I would be awesome here," the director might be a little taken aback, and perhaps even a little annoyed. You don't want to leave a bad taste in their mouth. Were it me, I would use this meeting as a chance to ask any questions I had about the school and the application process, and just show them how great I am in person, and then let my application do the rest of the talking. Apart from everything else, it's likely that if you try to broach this issue in person you may not do as good as job as you would in an addendum, particularly considering that you'll have plenty of time to draft and revise your addendum to make sure it has the perfect tone and conveys exactly what you want to say.

Hope that helps!

[verygoodman]

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