LSDAS GPA

[Trainwreck]

Does LSDAS do something weird with GPA calculations? My LSDAS GPA is not the same as my Undergrad GPA, that I get from my school. How is this possible? Shouldn't they be the same?

[Anne]

That's a great question, and one that actually bears a bit of explanation, since many students often get an surprise when they get their Law School Report from LSDAS. Students will often see their GPA change once it's been "converted" and processed by LSDAS, but it's not just a random whim on the part of LSDAS and LSAC--there is a science behind it (albeit not a terribly pleasant science).

Here's a little bit of background on the "why" of this particular LSDAS nastygram: What LSDAS does is "standardize" transcripts so that everyone is on the same field and the same scale. Look at it from the side of the law schools. If every time AdComs picked up a transcript they had to start by figuring out the grading scales, classes, and grading format for your school, given how many schools there are in the United States and all the different reporting forms, the AdComs would really be up against a wall. Every single time they picked up somebody’s transcript, they’d be struggling to figure out what the overall GPA was, how many credits they had, what courses they took, what grades they got, and how each applicant stacked up against the next. It would waste a lot of time, involve a lot of guesswork, and be very frustrating. So the purpose of what LSDAS is doing in terms of your grades is to standardize the readout that the Admissions Committee gets. That way, when they look at a single applicant they not only have a familiarity with the reporting (which right away helps with the speed and frustration), they also know what the master GPA is, the GPA-within-major, the courses each term had, and how one applicant's GPA compares to another's.

Now (and this is where your question comes in), as LSDAS standardizes your transcript one of the things they look at are the grades, and converting those to a standard scale. Because there are a lot of different grading systems at colleges and universities across the U.S., what LSDAS does is convert everything to one single scale. You can actually get that grading scale on their website, and they show you what the conversion is (http://www.lsac.org/aboutlsac/faqs-and-support-lsdas.asp#gpa-different).

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that every single grade that appears on your transcript will be converted. Usually it's not a big deal, but where I tipically see students get an unpleasant surprise is when they've failed a class and then re-taken it. Most schools, if you fail a class and then retake it, will replace your old "fail" grade with your new "retake" grade, and will take the "fail" grade off your school GPA. However (and this is a big however), almost every school, in your transcript, will shows that you originally got an F in that class, and that you then replaced it with an A. When LSDAS gets a transcript where that kind of grade replacement took place, if that F is there they will process it, regardless of whether it was replaced with an A. The A will still show, but now so will the F. You essentially get smacked with that zero GPA for each class that you've failed and retaken, and your school GPA, which was obtained without counting those original Fs, will drop points because those Fs are taken into account along with the grades that replaced them.

Be careful: Do not assume that the GPA your school is reporting is the GPA that LSDAS is going to report. I know that it sounds unfair–I think it is unfair in many respects, particularly since you retook the class and replaced the grade–but that's just the way LSDAS and LSAC work. Don't despair--remember that you can always explain discrepancies like that in an addendum, and that schools will also get copies of the front of your transcripts along with the transcript conversions in your LSDAS Report. AdComs do get both sides of the story. However, in the event that the discrepancy is significant, make sure to provide an explanation to the AdComs in an addendum, so they have the full story behind your grades.

[jsh1177]

I feel your pain..  I went from a 3.7 to 2.8!!!  But another important factor is that your grades should be on a upward trend.  If you have a few C's or even D's & F's freshman year but got your act together and by senior year with mostly A's and a few B's, admissions reps take this into consideration.  Your LSDAS report will show a breakdown of grades year by year so they can see the trend.  But definitely write an addendum if there were circumstances that lead to a bad grade or grades.

[Anne]

I feel your pain..  I went from a 3.7 to 2.8!!!  But another important factor is that your grades should be on a upward trend.  If you have a few C's or even D's & F's freshman year but got your act together and by senior year with mostly A's and a few B's, admissions reps take this into consideration.  Your LSDAS report will show a breakdown of grades year by year so they can see the trend.  But definitely write an addendum if there were circumstances that lead to a bad grade or grades.

Absolutely! Thankfully, grade trends are something that don't change once your transcript is converted by LSDAS. Your grade trend is important, particularly if you have a less-than-stellar overall GPA but can show that you had an upward grade trend and your highest grades were in your junior and senior years, where your classes were harder (or should be harder ). If, say, you have a 2.9 overall GPA but have a grade trend that looks like this:

Freshman year: 2.0
Sophomore year: 2.4
Junior year: 3.4
Senior year: 3.8

Then your overall GPA will take a back seat to your impressive upward grade trend. You've essentially shown the AdComs that you can handle (and excel) at the upper-level courses, and you also make any explanation you may have for the low grades in your freshman and sophomore years much more believable. I would suggest, though, that if you have any sort of "special circumstances" like that with your grades or transcripts--be they discrepancies between your school GPA and your LSDAS GPA or a sweeping upward grade trend like the one in the example above--that you provide an explanation to the AdComs in the form of an addendum. It is important to provide schools with all the information they need to intelligently analyze and understand your file. Make sure, though, that all you do is provide them with information--don't tell them how to do their job! 

[Trainwreck]

That's a great question, and one that actually bears a bit of explanation, since many students often get an surprise when they get their Law School Report from LSDAS. Students will often see their GPA change once it's been "converted" and processed by LSDAS, but it's not just a random whim on the part of LSDAS and LSAC--there is a science behind it (albeit not a terribly pleasant science).

Here's a little bit of background on the "why" of this particular LSDAS nastygram: What LSDAS does is "standardize" transcripts so that everyone is on the same field and the same scale. Look at it from the side of the law schools. If every time AdComs picked up a transcript they had to start by figuring out the grading scales, classes, and grading format for your school, given how many schools there are in the United States and all the different reporting forms, the AdComs would really be up against a wall. Every single time they picked up somebody’s transcript, they’d be struggling to figure out what the overall GPA was, how many credits they had, what courses they took, what grades they got, and how each applicant stacked up against the next. It would waste a lot of time, involve a lot of guesswork, and be very frustrating. So the purpose of what LSDAS is doing in terms of your grades is to standardize the readout that the Admissions Committee gets. That way, when they look at a single applicant they not only have a familiarity with the reporting (which right away helps with the speed and frustration), they also know what the master GPA is, the GPA-within-major, the courses each term had, and how one applicant's GPA compares to another's.

Now (and this is where your question comes in), as LSDAS standardizes your transcript one of the things they look at are the grades, and converting those to a standard scale. Because there are a lot of different grading systems at colleges and universities across the U.S., what LSDAS does is convert everything to one single scale. You can actually get that grading scale on their website, and they show you what the conversion is (http://www.lsac.org/aboutlsac/faqs-and-support-lsdas.asp#gpa-different).

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that every single grade that appears on your transcript will be converted. Usually it's not a big deal, but where I tipically see students get an unpleasant surprise is when they've failed a class and then re-taken it. Most schools, if you fail a class and then retake it, will replace your old "fail" grade with your new "retake" grade, and will take the "fail" grade off your school GPA. However (and this is a big however), almost every school, in your transcript, will shows that you originally got an F in that class, and that you then replaced it with an A. When LSDAS gets a transcript where that kind of grade replacement took place, if that F is there they will process it, regardless of whether it was replaced with an A. The A will still show, but now so will the F. You essentially get smacked with that zero GPA for each class that you've failed and retaken, and your school GPA, which was obtained without counting those original Fs, will drop points because those Fs are taken into account along with the grades that replaced them.

Be careful: Do not assume that the GPA your school is reporting is the GPA that LSDAS is going to report. I know that it sounds unfair–I think it is unfair in many respects, particularly since you retook the class and replaced the grade–but that's just the way LSDAS and LSAC work. Don't despair--remember that you can always explain discrepancies like that in an addendum, and that schools will also get copies of the front of your transcripts along with the transcript conversions in your LSDAS Report. AdComs do get both sides of the story. However, in the event that the discrepancy is significant, make sure to provide an explanation to the AdComs in an addendum, so they have the full story behind your grades.

Crap! I got fucked by them, hard. 3.4 is now 3.1! Big difference!

To JSH1177: dude, that sucks hugely. I can't believe they screwed you like that!!!

Really, there ought to be a rule against them pulling this bullshit. If my college says 3.4, they should report that straight out. No reason we should get screwed by their bureaucracy. We're innocent!

Thanks for the  , LSDAS.

[Trainwreck]

I feel your pain..  I went from a 3.7 to 2.8!!!  But another important factor is that your grades should be on a upward trend.  If you have a few C's or even D's & F's freshman year but got your act together and by senior year with mostly A's and a few B's, admissions reps take this into consideration.  Your LSDAS report will show a breakdown of grades year by year so they can see the trend.  But definitely write an addendum if there were circumstances that lead to a bad grade or grades.

I don't have a real solid trend unfortunately. I did go up over the four years, but its choppy and not a huge jump. I had one bad semester, then made it up later, but I guess I'm still going to pay the penalty for that. Not sure an addendum would be worth it, or if it would sound like I'm whining. Apparently everyone knows about this system except me.

If LSDAS is known to do this, why do our colleges send them info that allows them to do it?!?! Stupid. I'm going to complain.

[Anne]

Don't forget, though, Trainwreck, that law schools do get a copy of your school transcripts as part of your LSDAS Report, so they don't just look at your LSDAS GPA. A slip from 3.4 to 3.1 is enough to take you from 50th percentile for some schools to below 25th percentile, so if you have a compelling reason behind the low grades that got converted, I would include a brief addendum explaining what happened. It doesn't need to be two pages long, just outline the situation and present the facts.

Were your low grades in your first two years, by chance?

[jsh1177]

I don't have a real solid trend unfortunately. I did go up over the four years, but its choppy and not a huge jump. I had one bad semester, then made it up later, but I guess I'm still going to pay the penalty for that. Not sure an addendum would be worth it, or if it would sound like I'm whining. Apparently everyone knows about this system except me.

If LSDAS is known to do this, why do our colleges send them info that allows them to do it?!?! Stupid. I'm going to complain.

Trainwreck, if you had a bad semester own up to it in the addendum, I don't think it's whining. 

For me what killed my GPA was I enrolled in DeVry, a technical school.  I took out a $30K loan but halfway through my first section (basically a half quarter or what DeVry considers ) I decided to drop out because of a job offer.  Unfortunately I didn't go through the correct "un-enrollment" process, thought it was like community college and I had to register each semester.  With DeVry you're pre-enrolled for the entire "degree" and they continued to give me "F's" until the loan ran out.  Basically I was out $30K and they sank my GPA by giving me a year's worth of F's.  I worked for five years went to community college transfered in 1.5 years with a 3.7 and graduated from a UC in 1.5 years with a 3.7.

The DeVry grades are what's killing me and I've already spoke to an admissions counselor about them.  The greatest advice she gave me was to own up to MY error, find the silver lining and show that I matured because of it.  Definitely do not complain or vent in the addendum but show that like everyone else, you make mistakes BUT LEARN FROM THEM and are a better person because of them.  I think this is better than no explanation which allows the admissions counselor to think whatever they want.

[Anne]

The greatest advice she gave me was to own up to MY error, find the silver lining and show that I matured because of it.  Definitely do not complain or vent in the addendum but show that like everyone else, you make mistakes BUT LEARN FROM THEM and are a better person because of them.  I think this is better than no explanation which allows the admissions counselor to think whatever they want.

That's the absolute best advice anyone could give you--and that applies to just about any negative in your application where you did something wrong or engaged in less-than-awesome behavior. Owning up, explaining the facts, and showing how you've changed and what you learned from the situation both demonstrates maturity and gives the AdComs the background they need to interpret your application without having to make assumptions.

[Trainwreck]

Don't forget, though, Trainwreck, that law schools do get a copy of your school transcripts as part of your LSDAS Report, so they don't just look at your LSDAS GPA. A slip from 3.4 to 3.1 is enough to take you from 50th percentile for some schools to below 25th percentile, so if you have a compelling reason behind the low grades that got converted, I would include a brief addendum explaining what happened. It doesn't need to be two pages long, just outline the situation and present the facts.

Were your low grades in your first two years, by chance?

First semester, sophomore year. My mom got sick and I spent a lot of time traveling back and forth to home.

[Trainwreck]

Trainwreck, if you had a bad semester own up to it in the addendum, I don't think it's whining. 

I kind of feel that making any excuse or explanation will sound like whining no matter how I do it. It happened, and I'm not sure they would really care what the cause was. 

[Trainwreck]

For me what killed my GPA was I enrolled in DeVry, a technical school.  I took out a $30K loan but halfway through my first section (basically a half quarter or what DeVry considers ) I decided to drop out because of a job offer.  Unfortunately I didn't go through the correct "un-enrollment" process, thought it was like community college and I had to register each semester.  With DeVry you're pre-enrolled for the entire "degree" and they continued to give me "F's" until the loan ran out.  Basically I was out $30K and they sank my GPA by giving me a year's worth of F's.  I worked for five years went to community college transfered in 1.5 years with a 3.7 and graduated from a UC in 1.5 years with a 3.7.

Man, that blows. I had no idea DeVry would do something like that!

Still, it seems like this is a more valid excuse than mine because what happened was beyond your control, and what I would consider beyond reasonable.

[jsh1177]

First semester, sophomore year. My mom got sick and I spent a lot of time traveling back and forth to home.

Trainwreck, I hope your mom is better and you should explain it in an addendum.  Your not blaming your mom, or her illness but stating that fact that she was sick, it took away some of your studying time traveling back and forth, not to mention that your mind couldn't have been 100% on school.  State the facts, I would also put in that I do not regret taking time to be with my mother, grades aren't everything but maybe you learn to better manage your time cause of it.  It's not whining, its just life and that's what happened.  Even AdComs have mothers and family that they need to take care of sometimes.  This was truly out of your control.

[Anne]

First semester, sophomore year. My mom got sick and I spent a lot of time traveling back and forth to home.

Trainwreck, I hope your mom is better and you should explain it in an addendum.  Your not blaming your mom, or her illness but stating that fact that she was sick, it took away some of your studying time traveling back and forth, not to mention that your mind couldn't have been 100% on school.  State the facts, I would also put in that I do not regret taking time to be with my mother, grades aren't everything but maybe you learn to better manage your time cause of it.  It's not whining, its just life and that's what happened.  Even AdComs have mothers and family that they need to take care of sometimes.  This was truly out of your control.

Couldn't have put it better myself. There are a lot of things going for you in this case:

1. It was in your first two years of college, which is better than if it had happened in your last two. Not to say that during freshman and sophomore years you have license to mess up consistently, but it looks much better, as I think mentioned above, if your academic mistakes happened early on and you corrected them.

2. This was not only utterly out of your control, it is also a very legitimate reason for why your grades would fall. The only thing that they might ask is why you didn't take a leave of absence that one semester instead of trying to work your traveling along with your schoolwork. Think about why you didn't and present that answer in your explanation. It may be that you didn't anticipate how much you would travel back home, or that you thought it would be easier to handle than it was. Regardless, anticipate the question and answer it so that they have the full picture.


Also, let me reiterate what jsh1177 has already said: An addendum in this case will NOT be whining. You have a very legitimate reason and explanation for your circumstances, the situation was very close to you, and you proceeded to do well in school afterwards. You owe it yourself to realize that what you did was exactly the right thing to do, and not think of explaining it as whining or trying to get a free pass. I could give you plenty of examples of "whiny" addenda--this is not one of them.