NonTraditional Student

[Governor]

I am new to the board, but have a question (probably a series of them, actually).  I graduated from college in the mid 90s with not so stellar grades--but I had a real good time while I was there.  I went immediately to graduate school and obtained a master's degree with much better grades (3.0-ish ugpa, 3.6 grad gpa).  Then I worked for 14 years.  Now I'm applying to law school.  So, what is the relationship between undergrad gpa, grad gpa, and work experience?  Seems like I could make a case that I didn't know what I wanted to do in college, was young and out to have a good time.  But, now I'm older and wiser and my previous undergrad record is in the past and not indicative of much.  Anyway, thoughts?  Mainly curious about how the different degrees' gpas relate and how much schools value a non-trad, diversifying candidate.

[Anne]

Hey Governor! That's a good question. Here's the short answer: In a case like yours, where you've been out of college for well over a decade, your UGPA is going to matter a lot less than your LSAT score and work experience.

Now, don't get me wrong, if you're applying to any top school they'll want to know why it was that you didn't do quite so well in your undergrad days, but if you have a stellar LSAT, your UGPA will really not be that important, since your LSAT will be a much more recent indicator of your academic potential.

How you have performed at your job will also matter much more than your UGPA. Have you excelled at work? Have you been given important positions and lots of responsibility? Have you steadily risen through the ranks? All those things are going to matter a lot more--so definitely make sure to spend some time working on your résumé and ensuring that it tells a very clear and comprehensive picture of your professional life and successes.

About your graduate GPA: Schools will definitely take that into consideration (and it's a good thing that you did so much better in grad school than college), but grad schools in general tend to be a little more lenient about grading and grading curves, so it won't really make up for your UGPA. It will help, but it won't erase. Erasing will really be the LSAT score's job, so make sure you hit that ball out of the park.

Another thing you will need to tell law schools when you apply is WHY you're choosing law school. Although that particular topic doesn't really matter much when dealing with a fresh-out-of-college applicant, it matters a great deal when the person is 15 years out of college and 14 years into the work force. Why are you choosing law school? What about this moment makes it ideal to pursue this new endeavor? What do you plan to do with your degree? You'll need to answer those questions for the admissions committee, since they'll definitely be wondering why (particularly if you have a thriving career right now).

Hope that helps! Let us know if you have any other questions!

[lawdog]

I am new to the board, but have a question (probably a series of them, actually).  I graduated from college in the mid 90s with not so stellar grades--but I had a real good time while I was there.  I went immediately to graduate school and obtained a master's degree with much better grades (3.0-ish ugpa, 3.6 grad gpa).  Then I worked for 14 years.  Now I'm applying to law school.  So, what is the relationship between undergrad gpa, grad gpa, and work experience?  Seems like I could make a case that I didn't know what I wanted to do in college, was young and out to have a good time.  But, now I'm older and wiser and my previous undergrad record is in the past and not indicative of much.  Anyway, thoughts?  Mainly curious about how the different degrees' gpas relate and how much schools value a non-trad, diversifying candidate.

You've got quite a few things going for you--"diversifying" is right: having earned a masters degree is both a point of distinction and practical proof that you can handle graduate level study; and 14 years of real world experience certainly distinguishes you from the students who are just out of undergrad. With the amount of class discussion that takes place in most law schools, they do sincerely appreciate those who can bring a different perspective to the table. Just be sure that you're well-prepared for the LSAT--a solid score will most likely provide you with some pretty good options.

[MikePing]

It is also worth remembering that law schools publish the UGPA of each student, and those numbers are used by US News as a factor in the rankings.  Your best shot is to study your butt off for the LSAT, because you are going to need a good score. 

With a good score (which the schools will recognize as a sign of your hard work), and your experience, you can overcome your UGPA. 

Good luck, and let us know what happens...

[BlaineR]

For anybody in this situation, I think it is of high importance that you do some coursework before applying.  Take some courses that apply to law.  You can even do online courses just to refresh yourself on the educational experience as well as better prepare you for law school and the LSATs.  I would look into some schools with criminal justice programs.  Have you looked into law courses at Colorado Technical University?

[jansen]

Yes, having a degree is so nice..
you can apply a job base in your desire,,

[Anne]

Yes, having a degree is so nice..
you can apply a job base in your desire,,

Wow, this is almost like a SPAM haiku. Cute!

[Jeffort]

Yes, having a degree is so nice..
you can apply a job base in your desire,,

Wow, this is almost like a SPAM haiku. Cute!

Ha ha.  It sounded to me like a saying you find in fortune cookies!   

[score172]

Do you know any conservative law schools in the west coast (LA SF)?

[Anne]

Conservative can mean a lot of things. Do you mean politically conservative? Do you mean socially or religiously conservative? (Yes, the three can often be intertwined, but not always). What exactly is it that you're looking for, and why the focus on the conservative aspect? FYI, most schools will have conservative (political/religious/social) groups that you can join. As a general rule, law schools tend to be somewhat liberal establishments (although, as I said, they will all have conservative groups and factions you can join), so you'll be hard-pressed to find one that is fully conservative (and, really, would you want to? One of the best things about education is getting to know those who think differently from you, and learning how to appreciate those differences and defend your own ideologies). Also, looking for a conservative law school in San Francisco or Los Angeles (which I'm assuming is what you mean by "SF" and "LA") might be pretty difficult, considering they are both fairly liberal locales. I would say focus more on getting into the best school that you can, and less on its ideological leaning.